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	Comments on: Church: A messy, risky but still powerful ideal (Part 2 of So what is church?)	</title>
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		<title>
		By: Audrey Francis		</title>
		<link>https://brianharrisauthor.com/church-a-messy-risky-but-still-powerful-ideal/#comment-4288</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Audrey Francis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2016 07:15:10 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[Recently on entering a church in which I worship infrequently, I met an acquaintance, who, in the presence of others, asked me loudly, &quot;What brings you here?&quot;. Though embarrassed,I knew what the person meant. I have thought about the question, put the emphasis on each word in turn and discovered a host of other unconsidered questions. Thank you, Brian, for your thought provoking series.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Recently on entering a church in which I worship infrequently, I met an acquaintance, who, in the presence of others, asked me loudly, &#8220;What brings you here?&#8221;. Though embarrassed,I knew what the person meant. I have thought about the question, put the emphasis on each word in turn and discovered a host of other unconsidered questions. Thank you, Brian, for your thought provoking series.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Brian Harris		</title>
		<link>https://brianharrisauthor.com/church-a-messy-risky-but-still-powerful-ideal/#comment-4285</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian Harris]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2016 02:07:56 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://brianharrisauthor.com/church-a-messy-risky-but-still-powerful-ideal/#comment-4277&quot;&gt;Justin&lt;/a&gt;.

Thanks Justin. Picking up on your does the presence of Jesus reverse the Ascension, I guess the classic answer is that Jesus is present through the Spirit. And Jesus&#039; teaching on the Spirit in both John 14 and 16 lends this good support. The fascinating question is of course... Present when two or three gather, but surely also present when we are on our own (an lo I am with you even to the end of the age - Matt 28:20). So in what way is the presence different? In principle, this is the same question as &#039;in what way is Jesus specially present at the sacraments&#039;. I&#039;m with Calvin on this - in a mysterious way God is more present. The more present is an idea difficult to articulate at a cerebral level (surely you are there or not there), yet strangely it is very easy to grasp experientially. In our hearts we know we experience the presence of God more fully in some settings than in others. And I know you are smart enough to note that I am rotating through the members of the Trinity quite intentionally in my answer.

In the context of our ecclesiology, perhaps we should link it to Eph 3:18 that it is only together &#039;with all the saints&#039; that we can begin to appreciate the depth of God&#039;s love. So though our gathering may be of only 2 or 3 (or 300 or 3000) in principle we gather aware that we are part of this far greater community, and that together with them we are on a quest to discover and live out the love of God... And we do that in the presence of Jesus who at all times accompanies us.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://brianharrisauthor.com/church-a-messy-risky-but-still-powerful-ideal/#comment-4277">Justin</a>.</p>
<p>Thanks Justin. Picking up on your does the presence of Jesus reverse the Ascension, I guess the classic answer is that Jesus is present through the Spirit. And Jesus&#8217; teaching on the Spirit in both John 14 and 16 lends this good support. The fascinating question is of course&#8230; Present when two or three gather, but surely also present when we are on our own (an lo I am with you even to the end of the age &#8211; Matt 28:20). So in what way is the presence different? In principle, this is the same question as &#8216;in what way is Jesus specially present at the sacraments&#8217;. I&#8217;m with Calvin on this &#8211; in a mysterious way God is more present. The more present is an idea difficult to articulate at a cerebral level (surely you are there or not there), yet strangely it is very easy to grasp experientially. In our hearts we know we experience the presence of God more fully in some settings than in others. And I know you are smart enough to note that I am rotating through the members of the Trinity quite intentionally in my answer.</p>
<p>In the context of our ecclesiology, perhaps we should link it to Eph 3:18 that it is only together &#8216;with all the saints&#8217; that we can begin to appreciate the depth of God&#8217;s love. So though our gathering may be of only 2 or 3 (or 300 or 3000) in principle we gather aware that we are part of this far greater community, and that together with them we are on a quest to discover and live out the love of God&#8230; And we do that in the presence of Jesus who at all times accompanies us.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Justin		</title>
		<link>https://brianharrisauthor.com/church-a-messy-risky-but-still-powerful-ideal/#comment-4277</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Justin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jan 2016 13:33:18 +0000</pubDate>
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					<description><![CDATA[Hi Brian,  I appreciate the effort it must take to tackle such a big topic in such a short form.  Your use of Matt 18:20 challenges my understanding of the context.  I&#039;ll have to have a think about this.  I notice in this post you use &quot;gathering in the name of Jesus&quot; as opposed to your previous statement &quot;gathering and Jesus will be present.&quot;  Is there a difference?  Does one contradict the ascension?  I reckon that kind of thing matters a lot to people with a churchless faith.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Brian,  I appreciate the effort it must take to tackle such a big topic in such a short form.  Your use of Matt 18:20 challenges my understanding of the context.  I&#8217;ll have to have a think about this.  I notice in this post you use &#8220;gathering in the name of Jesus&#8221; as opposed to your previous statement &#8220;gathering and Jesus will be present.&#8221;  Is there a difference?  Does one contradict the ascension?  I reckon that kind of thing matters a lot to people with a churchless faith.</p>
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